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Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 06:05:00 - [1] Due to certain abuses of a particular mechanic of a certain complex that make it impossible to complete, I've scheduled an inconvenient operation for Thursday. The op will be open to all players, sort of as a player run "event" and I would invite GMs and Devs to observe as well. If you have the ability to fire off FOF missiles for more than an hour and would like to make some cash/grief farmers, please Evemail me for information. There will be LOTS of salvage available, depending on the number of ships we can have in the operation. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 11:55:00 - [2] Originally by: Alvin Elte i need more info please. will i be suiciding. will i get stuff. what time? etc. The only thing you may be asked to sacrifice is time/fof missiles. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Janus Veyron I find this zealotism against macro'ers pretty.....sad. I think you've missed the point. We do it because it's fun, not because we're zealots. 50% of all online communications are supposedly misinterpreted. I think maybe you've gone and done that. Hey man, if you don't want to get in to the game, why play? Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:11:00 - [4] Originally by: Morrow Disca What time Thursday? (game time) A bit more info and i might be tempted. More info will be forthcoming. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Gaven Blands I gave up the good fight a long time ago because CCP make it routinely and continuously more and increasingly more difficult to hurt the farmers. And the speed at which they introduce protection for the farmers increases also, it was blatant a year ago, now it is just insulting. I would still target farmers, if I though I could make an impact. When I first started against them I saw the price of isk go up by $4 per 100 million. Then when Invention protected them by dropping prices of Expanders / miners / hulks / occators the price of isk plummeted, demonstrating that they could no longer be hurt financially by direct action, as the volumes of isk traded were too high. So this plot of yours, scaled against say, a 5 mackinaw smartbomb run (also made impossible - thanks again CCP) does how much damage to farmers? If you're telling me that I can make a significant impact, I may well come in on this, but if this is more publicity than isk impact, CCP gave there answer on dealing with them. "No". And this won't help. How much farmer damage are we talking here? We plan to lock up the complex so badly that farmers will not be able to kill anything. An all day lagbomb would be even better. The pre-plan is to make it so impossible for them to get into the containers or kill anything that they miss a good day of work. Hard working players should not have to be pushed out of the way by groups of non-players for any reason. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Tarminic What time? I'd love to attend All ****in' day. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:44:00 - [7] Since the element of surprise has manage to dissipate on it's own, the location will be Deltole, time will be all day. Please bring FOF missile boats(as many as possible), hackers, salvagers, and logistics. If we can overtake the entire complex, we will have gone above and beyond the scope of the op. I'd like to just have a hundred people show up, park, and start lobbing off fof until everything in every room is dead before anyone else can lock it. I imagine that would be quite frustrating. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:48:00 - [8] Originally by: Gaven Blands So it's a lagbomb potential EULA violation you want from me? In that case, I'll see what I can do. Evemail me where I need to bring an assault fof spitting drake (for a guess) and I'll see if my CEO will give me a few hours off. Heh- we're not going for EULA violation, just an amount of perfectly legal, TOS approved, game mechanic using, heavy player interference with non-playing farmers. Please DO NOT break EULA or TOS for this. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:02:00 - [9] Originally by: SpyGuyofDOOM Originally by: Janus Veyron I find this zealotism against macro'ers pretty.....sad. So these "macroers" you say not only macro, but they spam chat channels with isk sales and also sell isk, wouldn't ccp of banned them by now or do you think that ccp is competent, if so then why do you even play EVE if it's made by incompetent people? We should really change our name to Farmerintel, because there's just this inability to understand that these people are not macros. They are people. *People who play the game to make an actual monetary gain.* These farmers bully and intimidate younger players and players who're trying to complete missions/get ahead on their own. The data center in Tvink is another example. This is an example of what I posted earlier- CCP can do anything they are supposed to do out of game. We as players have the ability to use every mechanic we can to stop these farmers from abusing the system. This is a case where someone came to us and complained that farmers had taken over a complex and it's something many of us had seen firsthand, so we decided it was time to do something about it. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:29:00 - [10] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 08/10/2007 15:29:36 Originally by: Kagura Nikon This could be easily solved if all players were forced on non NPC corps after 1 month in game. Then we could simply kill them always. I mostly agree with that, but know it wouldn't work. Maybe forced to have no corp at all? Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 17:46:00 - [11] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 08/10/2007 17:46:22 Originally by: Seriphos Can anyone come? Anyone but farmers, I guess. There will be some sort of gang and common goals for the op players, but if you want to come and shoot things, you're more than welcome. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 19:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Ethaet Originally by: Tarminic Does this event involve a CONCORDOKKEN by any chance? Or is that classified? What he said ^ If the answer is no then count me in I guess No. Not unless you want to. I'd rather have you all alive and well, firing as many missiles as you can for as long as you can. As far as I know, if your ship pops, you cant fire your weapons. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:53:00 - [13] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Originally by: Janus Veyron I find this zealotism against macro'ers pretty.....sad. Isk farmer sympathiser My thoughts exactly. They never sleep. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Originally by: Cruthensis I am very there! But I can't shoot FOF missiles so I'll just bring my salvager? Anyway - why FOFs? I am totally clueless about missiles. Because someone wants all of you Concorded. Wrong: someone wants rats out of the way before anyone else can kill them. I don't think they work the way you think. I'm pretty sure they don't magically lower your sec status. I've used them successfully many times... Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 17:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Cruthensis Originally by: Snake Doctor Wrong: someone wants rats out of the way before anyone else can kill them. Well, wouldn't sentry drones be pretty good for this? Instant pwndmg from range, if there were enough of them. Is there some problem with locking these rats? Nah, not at all. FOF was really just the suggested method at the onset. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 19:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Because someone wants all of you Concorded. Sure seems that way. Hey everyone, lets get into a big blob in high sec and spam fofs. Yeah. I support the mission to push farmers away. I don't support whoever came up with this strategy. I've done this before. FOF's do not attack people in high sec. Maybe it can happen, but I haven't seen it once. I've seen FOF's auto target friendlies in low and 0.0. Try it before you start saying we're here to get you concorded. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Frug Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky Because someone wants all of you Concorded. Sure seems that way. Hey everyone, lets get into a big blob in high sec and spam fofs. Yeah. I support the mission to push farmers away. I don't support whoever came up with this strategy. FoF missiles work off the aggression timer.. If somethings not aggroed to you they won't even activate.. To test this for yourself just warp to a belt and try to activate them before the rats or a player lock you up and fire.. You can of course force the timer by locking up a ship yourself but that would be the thing that gets you Concordokkened.. So as long as you don't have a player targeted then you can spam them all day long on the rats without any fear of getting instapwnd.. Oh.. And This is going to be rather fun as I have a lovely Drake with both a hacker and analyzer modual with tons of FoF.. P.S. CCP plz boost the node for the op area that day.. Awesome. You're more than welcome to join us. I'll be flying the same for most of the day. I'm having 75,000 hydras shipped to the station today and more later. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Motokko What if someone starts looting the wrecks. Is that going to make them a target for the FOF's since they become a viable target due to the criminal act? I'm pretty sure you have to be fired upon to throw fof at someone. If you want to loot wrecks, please x for gang. Not really concerned with the loot in Deltole ;) Anyone can come with any setup they'd like, but fof was initially suggested because of the high amount of coverage they provide per person and you can light them off for hours at a time. The suggested loadout is a missile boat, but if you'd like to fly something else, that's okay. I'm starting to think CCP might want to boost Deltole a bit, but if we keep on the wrecks and the loot cans well enough, it shouldn't be that big a problem. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 20:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Shaiso jun This is a scam to get you all killed so they can steal your stuff!! /tinfoil /no. /I don't need your stuff. Look, if you're so worried stay out of the plex! Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Shaiso jun (lots of text about how I'm scamming you) I only have 3 responses: 1. It's not like I'm new at the macro thing. I've a history of trying to "stick it to them." I think I've already proven myself. 2. I'm not scamming you. I could care less about your assets as I'm not trying to relieve you of them. It's not that I'm a carebear or a n00b or whatever you'd like to call me, I'm simply apathetic. 3. You sound a lot like a farmer sympathizer, and no doubt will make an attempt as such to make Thursday difficult for me. Go ahead. It's just a game. I can always leave. I don't get beaten if I don't make 100m isk in a day. Oh, and 4: Lighten up. Not everyone is here to screw you. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 22:02:00 - [21] Originally by: Shaiso jun Originally by: Snake Doctor It's not that I'm a carebear or a n00b or whatever you'd like to call me, I'm simply apathetic. Im not trying to call you out or insult you and dont want to call you anything Im just explaining how this looks Originally by: Snake Doctor You sound a lot like a farmer sympathizer I'm not a sympathizer but i do think its futile that people get so worked up about the farmers, why pay monthly subs to get frustrated about ISK farmers? leave them to CCP to deal with, Just get on with the game and play it do some pew pew or molest some roids or whatever you like doing not spending your time crusading against the farmers and if that's what you enjoy doing and play the game for that you need to reevaluate why your here in the first place. you made the statement yourself:- Originally by: Snake Doctor It's just a game. Originally by: Snake Doctor Oh, and 4: Lighten up. Not everyone is here to screw you. Yes they are its EVE That's the thing- many of us enjoy playing EVE to grief farmers. It can become a rather enjoyable activity! Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 22:41:00 - [22] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Snake Doctor 3. You sound a lot like a farmer sympathizer, and no doubt will make an attempt as such to make Thursday difficult for me. Go ahead. It's just a game. I can always leave. I don't get beaten if I don't make 100m isk in a day. A farmer sympathizer? Are you serious? You might as well accuse him of being a terrorist! Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping to attend the event to at least watch or salvage, but calling people sympathizers smacks of the kind of accusations a witchhunt creates. As does calling someone a scammer. It would be a pretty over-the-top scam to get involved with macrointel for over a year, petition macros/farmers, study how they work and what they use, throw away money on smartbombs (that don't work anymore), lose sec status, and then plan a rather elaborate operation to lock down a complex being paid for out of pocket where anyone can join in. Yeah. I'd say that's a hell of a scam... Someone , no corp, no alliance comes to post on a thread trying to discredit the OP for going maybe slightly out of his way to organize an event would smack a little more of "farmer sympathizer", "farmer", "macro runner", or the like than the OP smacks scammer. Rifter Flight Manual!
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.09 23:01:00 - [23] Originally by: Shaiso jun comon seriously where do you think these billions and billions some individual players have come from?, not everyone makes such a success of markets. Just a quick note- Mining has netted me maybe 200 million isk in 4 years. It's the other activities EVE offers that make you the $$$ Rifter Flight Manual!

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